I understand your position, however it doesn’t matter what feminism means to you, what feminists say feminism is about or what feminism is defined as in a dictionary. All that matters are the actions carried out in that ideology’s name, all the lies and misinformation feminism has been used not only to create fear within the hearts of women towards men but also to influence the creation of laws and policies that are harmful to men. Actions speak louder than words.
I know there are plenty of women who think the same as you do who call themselves feminists, but I feel that rather than trying to correct people who like like myself, you instead need to educate yourself about what feminism is actually doing rather than just trusting the message about what it’s aiming to accomplish. You’ll find that it’s the feminists you disagree with who are controlling it’s actions, you might find that you are in fact, not a feminist and are in actuality an egalitarian. Also it’s worth noting that despite their claims to the opposite, feminism is not an egalitarian movement for equal rights, the name Feminism alone makes it’s focus clear.
Why should any of us care about what’s done in the ‘name of feminism’? What I care about is equality and how people treat other people.
You get caught up in arguing about the labels, in what “feminism” means or doesn’t mean, as if there’s one perfect answer to that question. There isn’t. It’s semantics. I see a lot of good stuff posted and said under the guise of feminism, and I occasionally see some pretty stupid stuff, too.
But really, I don’t care if you call yourself a feminist or not, so long as you care about the same things as I do; about how people treat each other.
So, you can either diss a movement that has a lot of people that care about equality but also does have some assholes.. or you could just focus on calling assholery that you see, when you see it. But you’re not gaining anything by focusing on the label.
You should care because what is being accomplished by feminism is the exact opposite of what you claim to care about. What does it matter though, it’s only men and women who want to make choices other than what feminism deems as acceptable who are being being negatively impacted and they don’t count when it comes to equality so everything is good.
Actually, no I did not get caught up the labels, I said that the labels were irrelevant and what feminism actually does is more important than what it’s claimed to be about.
I appreciate your sentiment. I wish I could in good conscience echo it back to you but I cannot do so while you sit in one corner of your group chatting happily and ignore what’s going on in the other corner rather than telling them to knock it off or leave. Were it really ‘nice’ feminists like you who were in control of the movement, you would stand up and kick out the ‘assholes’ and work to block the changes harmful to others that they try to enact into law. Were you the majority you would be successful.
Either those feminists who are like you aren’t really standing up for equality for all and are just taking every privilege feminism wins for women or you are not representative of mainstream feminism.
As I said, I wasn’t focusing on the labels, my emphasis on those points was to preemptively cancel out any ‘but that’s not what feminism means’ strawman arguments in response. You focused on the labels rather than my actual argument.
Nope.. I still don’t care about what’s done in the “name of feminism”.
There’s not some test you have to pass to be called a feminist, no set of beliefs you have to formally accept. Anyone can call themselves a feminist, and that doesn’t mean they speak for me, in the same way that there are Christians who bomb abortion clinics or Muslims who blow up buses in the name of their religion. So, I can’t stand up and “kick out” the ‘bad’ feminists. It’s not like we regularly meet and take a vote on this stuff. It’s not some club I can kick people out of.
On top of that, I don’t see how calling yourself a feminist (or not) should make much difference for me. If you’re a jerk, I’m going to call you out whether or not you’re a feminist. Calling yourself a feminist shouldn’t matter here; you don’t get a pass for being a jerk if you accept that label, nor do I treat you worse if you don’t.
I do have my ideas about what feminism means, and yeah, obviously I’ll argue about that. But what’s more important is: I do speak out when people push for laws that favor a gender, or when people try to push gender roles, or in any other way treat people badly on the basis of gender or sex. That’s what feminism means to me. But I don’t do it because I accept ‘feminism’, but because it’s the right thing to do.
You can say that labels don’t matter to you, but you’re the one posting the arguments about feminism and feminists, and you’re the one telling people that their self-labels might be wrong, that they might “in actuality” be an “egalitarian”, not a feminist.
For someone who doesn’t care about labels, you sure talk about them a lot, and heck, you even pushed your own preferred label. So… ‘Methinks the lady doth protest too much’.
I don’t know if you’re intentionally missing the point and getting lost in my side arguments and responses to your claims where I have to address what you said and ignoring the crux of my arguments, however while trying to argue against me you’ve made an argument I would make in my favor in a short sighted way.
No we don’t blame the majority of Christians or Muslims for the actions of their violent radicals nor feminists for the actions of theirs. We do however take exception to when they attempt to pass laws when they infringe on our freedoms. Radicals create violence, main-streamers use their acceptance to create laws. Which is the point you continue to miss. It’s the mainstream feminists making harmful laws to push their agenda. If you and feminists like yourself were really the mainstream then they wouldn’t be able to get these laws made. Not that you, yourself being male would be welcomed at any discussion that concerns laws regarding men. As despite the common perception, even early feminism when it was the woman’s suffrage movement has never been about equality and certainly in no way noble.
As for your use of Shakespeare, that quote does not mean what you think it means, when asked how she is enjoying the play, Gertrude replies to Hamlet, ”The lady doth protest too much, methinks.” She means that she promises too much. In Shakespeare’s time protest meant to vow or declare, which is why Hamlet responds to queen gertrude with, ”O, but she’ll keep her word.”